Feb 23, 2018, 06:50pm
Should I be able to change the sex on my drivers ID if I feel like it?
frank4570
Posts: 715
forum Intelligent Discussion
So, I just heard lesbian blogger Cynthia Yockey tell a m/f transperson that they have a mental illness. It seemed kind of harsh to me.
So, what do you guys think? Oops, sorry. What do you persons think?
It really does get tricky. Can a person with all of the normal sex organs of one sex claim to be of the opposite sex? If a person who has the sexual characteristics of one, and they claim to be something else, should it be a crime to intentionally identify them with a pronoun other than that as which they identify?
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Posts: 367
Feb 23, 2018, 07:30pm

In my country if you want to change anything in your legal documents, you have to file an affidavit for it and appear in court. It depends on the court if they will allow you to change it. So a lesbian will still be ‘female’ unless she can convince the court that she is a male.
I don’t think it is a crime to refer to them using the pronoun that they feel, but in legal matters that involve identification especially in papers (will, statement in a law suit or investigation, etc.) you should be identified as your gender in your ID.
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Posts: 721
Feb 23, 2018, 08:07pm

If I understand it correctly, the proposed legislation would make it a hate crime to intentionally use the wrong pronoun to a person who has made their desired pronoun known. This would be like a ticket, if not paid, jail.
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Posts: 368
Feb 23, 2018, 08:53pm

They still have to prove that it was use with intention and I think that will be hard hmm
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Posts: 964
Feb 23, 2018, 09:00pm

Which state is considering that legislation?
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Posts: 8
Feb 23, 2018, 10:37pm

sex and gender are different. there’s no reason the DMV, or frankly anyone other than your medical team, should know your exact combination of genitalia, chromosomes, and hormone production.
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Posts: 725
Feb 23, 2018, 10:42pm

kumquat The state of canada.
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The answer to questions nobody asked
Completely Batshit
Feb 24, 2018, 07:38am

I believe change sex in any way is fad world stuff.
If you use logic sociologically and inherently at large you'll know what I say is true.
So go on a change your sex, I can guarantee that in the far side of life, you'll know the logic I speak off that to make sense not according to others but to your very own self, and it's not suddenly, it takes time in a different clock manner similar to earth.
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Posts: 732
Feb 24, 2018, 12:04pm

I think americans generally prefer to not mess with the constitution unless there is a safety issue. We all enjoy that we have the right to speak our mind and nobody can tell us not to.
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Civilian
Feb 24, 2018, 12:28pm

Why does a driving licence need to know this information anyway?
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Posts: 735
Feb 24, 2018, 04:53pm

^In addition to what Ulf said, if a person is a wanted felon and that person is a guy, but when the cops pull him(or whatever over) the description of the person they are looking for is a guy, but the felon standing in front of them is not a guy, as per their drivers license. Do they arrest the person who does not match the description?
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Posts: 5381
Civilian
Feb 24, 2018, 05:01pm

It’s a moot point when considered alongside your other and greater emotional failings, tbh.
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Arthopod loving tattooed serotonergic psychedelic imbibing anti-social socialist ecologist motorcyclist dual-PhD'd scientist metalhead hermit extraordinaire
Feb 24, 2018, 07:40pm

Australia hasn't had sex listed on driver's licenses for years, in accordance with anti-discrimination laws.
Amusingly enough earlier this year the usual parade of perpetually outraged right wing nutjobs got into a lather about the state of Queensland dropping sex from licenses, including a proclamation of a motion in parliament from a sitting MP to put a stop to the PC madness. Then they went all silent when it was pointed out this change already happened a couple of years ago to no fanfare, bringing Queensland into line with all the other states.
Height was also removed. Nobody got up in arms about that.
Edited by nothing_man on Feb 24, 2018, 07:41pm
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Posts: 736
Feb 24, 2018, 09:18pm

^Any idea what the actual result has been? People tend to shut up when their bosses boss tells them to shut up. So finding out what is really going on can sometimes be difficult.
Other than the drivers license, are other people compelled to use the pronouns chosen by the person?
And how do cops iD somebody when they can say what sex they are or how tall they are?
Honest questions.
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Posts: 2417
Arthopod loving tattooed serotonergic psychedelic imbibing anti-social socialist ecologist motorcyclist dual-PhD'd scientist metalhead hermit extraordinaire
Feb 24, 2018, 10:25pm

From what I noticed on social media the biggest result was people becoming aware sex is no longer listed in licenses. It really did go without fanfare, I had no idea it'd changed. It got dragged up by literal fake news, a right-biased newspaper claimed it'd been changed because of complaints from the lgbtqi community, but that turned out to be false. It got changed to bring Queensland into line with federal anti-discrimination laws.
I'm not aware of any legislation compelling people to use chosen pronouns. There might be, I honestly don't know. I haven't noticed any hassles about it in any of the news or social commentary I read.
On my police scanner when they're describing someone they seem to always say 'of male appearance' or 'of female appearance' or they just describe what they're wearing, 'suspect was last seen wearing blue board shorts and a grey tshirt with a Billabong logo on the back'. Height seems to be just a general guess. Like 'suspect is reported to be around 180cm, 'suspect is reported to be around 155cm'.
I recall seeing on one of those highway patrol tv shows a cop pulled over a trangendered person and got it wrong. I don't remember the exact conversation but it went along these lines:
"Do you know the speed limit for this road, ma'am?"
"Not ma'am, I'm trangender female to male."
"Sorry mate."
"No sweat."
"So do you know the speed limit for this road, sir?"
And everyone went on with their day.
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Posts: 737
Feb 24, 2018, 10:42pm

"Anyway I read that a butch lesbian got mistaken for a transgender person in Target, and she complained (sued?) which led to target changing their bathroom policy for all of their stores."

Good grief. It's like the punchline of a joke.

Because of my hair I get mistaken for a woman now and then. It's doesn't make me go crazy because I'm not crazy in the first place.

Our car gave use trouble, we stopped along side the road. My wife and I both bent over the car looking at the engine. An nice cop showed up and approached "do you ladies need some help?" I turned around and looked at the cop, he was clearly embarrassed and apologized. My wife laughed, I went back to troubleshooting. It wasn't a big deal. But I'm not wound up like a blender.
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Posts: 738
Feb 24, 2018, 10:47pm

nothing_man Thanks for your response. What you have said makes sense. With a little word changing everybody is mostly happy and cops still do their job without much problem.
Fair enough. Not the end of the world.
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Arthopod loving tattooed serotonergic psychedelic imbibing anti-social socialist ecologist motorcyclist dual-PhD'd scientist metalhead hermit extraordinaire
Feb 24, 2018, 11:33pm

Yeah I don't see it as a big deal. Someone prefers being referred to in a specific way that's no skin off my nose. Common courtesy costs nothing, but can provide a lot to someone.
I've never really given it much thought, but I guess I approach it the same way I do with my name. I can't stand being called the full version of my first name, so when someone does I say 'I much prefer Matt', they start calling me Matt instead of Matthew and life goes on unhindered.
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Civilian
Feb 25, 2018, 03:11am

Why does this matter so much to you?
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Civilian
Feb 25, 2018, 03:16am

we're not going to gut and redesign the english language around gender neutral pronouns

Are you the rules guy? The really great thing about the English language is that it changes whether people approve of change or not.

Can you give me any examples of words that have been prevented from entering the English language due to popular outcry?
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Posts: 981
Feb 25, 2018, 09:28am

They should just call it "human decency" instead of "politically correct" because the latter has such negative connotations now. I mean, they mean exactly the same thing, but one group of people think it's some slight on their sensibilities and the other group just wants to be treated decently.
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