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From the article, I recommend reading the rest: A judge handed a 53-year-old woman and her 35-year-old son probation for incest Thursday after the pair admitted to a sordid tryst, witnessed by her daughter and his sister at her father's deathbed.
Incest may make you squishy with disgust, and when it comes packaged in child abuse it's abominable and the victim clear, but this is a case of two adults, and both mother and son are punished.
Alright shitkicker, we're stuck on whether popular feeling on it's own is a good enough reason to keep an act illegal or not. We can't reduce it further than that and we're clearly not going to agree, so why don't we just call it and agree to disagree?
Which is totally fine. No-one's suggesting it's not considered deeply abnormal and immoral by most, if not all, cultures around the world. It's not about comprehending it, it's about not victimising those that do.
"Alright shitkicker, we're stuck on whether popular feeling on it's own is a good enough reason to keep an act illegal or not. We can't reduce it further than that and we're clearly not going to agree, so why don't we just call it and agree to disagree? "
Sounds good to me, I`ve given my opinions on why I believe it should be made illegal, nothing new to bring to the discussion, so I`ll just lurk from here on out.
Even if they're both adults, that doesn't change the fact that it's wrong... but that's my opinion. Let them do what they want... they shouldn't have kids, though... inbred children are born with all sorts of problems :/
OK shitkicker What do we do with the Kids who are BORN from such acts, are we to kill them on the spot? due to your arguments it seems you would be for that
"OK shitkicker What do we do with the Kids who are BORN from such acts, are we to kill them on the spot? due to your arguments it seems you would be for that "
No, no, no, I would not valiadate infanticide in the undue course of incestuous acts leading to children being born. They should not be held accountable for the parent`s actions..
Panocha Posse 4 life. Panocha Bandito. Love the camboyana puta. CHUPALO PUTA!!!!
The majority of arguments against incest in this thread seem to be trying to appeal to emotion. While I feel no attraction to any family member, I do not find it repulsive that others would do so. Whoop-de-do.
I didn't realize your moral obligations entitled you people to force them upon others.
As to the one intelligent argument to that it may cause defects, yes, it MAY. And those chances only become likely after multiple cases of inbreeding. However, birth defects happen all the time. Should we kill all those who have them? Is that your moral "duty"?
I am of the opinion sir that your foster parents should keep a close eye on you, you are in urgent need of stern parental guidence. Theres something wrong with your programming.
Panocha Posse 4 life. Panocha Bandito. Love the camboyana puta. CHUPALO PUTA!!!!
Just thought I'd mention, nowhere in the Bible is there a word that speaks against cousins marrying or having sexual relations.
"The harm this sick owman and troubled son have doen to their family name and each other`s reputation is so bad, there is nothing left to salvage, a healthy, normal family would be devastated. "
So let's punish them on top of that? Good idea.
No doubt you consider it a perversion, but because it's not your cup of tea does not mean it should be illegal.
"That's just my opinion, I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller
"but on the topic of whether the bible should be the boss when we decide what is acceptable or not, totally relevant."
you'd think that wouldn't you? People still try and obey the 10 commandments, also the bible is nothing more than stories which got lost in translation and shouldn't be taken seriously
I've never known of an incestuous relationship that was healthy. From what I can tell, the majority of people involved in incest are perpetrators or victims. Those relationships between consenting adults almost always happen when the two have been separated from birth, or at least very early in life, and the feelings when they are reunited are overwhelming. Therefore, since all incest I'm aware of is born out of unhealthy circumstances and causes only pain afterwards, it should be illegal.
I an only speak about what I know of... and I have no personal experiences with incest (except for the cousins in my hometown). Incest between father, mother, children or siblings is very harmful to those involved. Why SHOULD it be legal?
And what does your comment have to do with anything? I'm neutral about dictators and I think democracy cannot work in large populations, but is the perfect system of government for small ones.
The bottom line is, find me a case of consensual incest that wasn't harmful to the other members of the family, their children and each other. Enlighten me, have you ever heard of a sustainable and healthy incestuous relationship?
But harm has been proven over and over again, while healthy cases have not. I'm not omniscient, but all evidence only points in one direction so it's the stance I choose to take.
And what about the consequences for everyone else involved? Or the long term consequences for the couple? There are none that are good and I can say that with confidence.
Edited by: niXisonablitZ
at August 19, 2012, 12:37am
Incest is not as simple as guilty or innocent. And the consequences for other people are huge. Incest is not a victimless crime, no matter what people who commit the crime say. Their families, friends and children have to deal with it too.
Incest is not a victimless crime, no matter what people who commit the crime say. Their families, friends and children have to deal with it too.
You could easily replace the word "incest" with "miscegenation" there, and you'd have a common statement made 100-150 years ago. We've since moved on from that, of course- but why couldn't the same apply to incest?
What about an incestuous, gay relationship involving two brothers? No children will be born of such a relationship, so the possibility for genetic defects in future children is redundant, meaning the only real stigma attached to this kind of relationship is a social and familial one.
My mother was emotional incestuous. I can't remember if she did something sexual to me as a child but I know I'm pretty fucked up as an adult because of her being too close to me. I wish somebody had taken me out of the situation cos I didnt have a voice at such a young age (like under 12).
"Sometimes the heart cries in cascading sunsets and sometimes it cries under the darkness of the new moon....
but it always cries in the hearts of the beloved..."
...the evolution of state in diction and general conditions in both sides of live must be catching up!...
I think however that incest can be tolerated as family members learn the fishy-witsy awareness of yin-yang or kether...etc. Learned fantasy games as the what it would be like-attitude... - Energies that mean practically the same thing but different names in the old world on different areas which I think originated from extraterrestrial sources dictated to earth back then; Uhmm, nay nay for the Mid-eastern-European Adam and Eve's direct knowledge.
And there are several articles that state that Homo sapiens regularly consorted with Neanderthals and others. The proof is in, albeit trivial things, hair color and height.
Obviously, when incest is also abuse, it is never ethical. There is too much damage done to the victim, and the perpetrator often acts as a result of their own issues. I hope that one day we can figure out a way to target potential abusers and provide them the support they need before they ruin someone else's life. However, sometimes incest involves two consensual parties. Before I talk about the technicalities involved in these relationships, I'd like to state that what two consensual adults do in their own bedroom is not for us to become involved in or judge. Whatever occurs as a result - be it offspring, crime, etc. - can result in rightful legal repercussions and such, but until something like that occurs, we are in no place to judge.
When two people who are closely related have feelings for each other - meaning closer than but not including first cousins - it's actually called genetic sexual attraction, and is a recognized psychological disorder. Personally, I believe these people either need therapy, or should undergo surgery to induce infertility and move to a country where their relationship is socially acceptable (or tolerate their current environment if that isn't possible). We find it "disgusting" because of something called the Westermarck effect - we reversely sexually imprinted on people we grew up with so that we would not become attracted to them. In some situations, the Westermarck effect does not occur between two family members, or disappears due to things like abuse or a complicated home life.
In terms of cousin-cousin relationships - they're accepted in many cultures and very rarely result in genetic defects in offspring, as long as the cousin-cousin relationships skip generations, meaning the children of two first cousins do not reproduce with their own first cousins and so on. From what I seem to hear, the only people who consider cousin-cousin relationships are in the West, white, and Americanized. This "disgust" is social.
"From an article I read not long ago, Homo sapiens sapiens did not breed with other hominids. So the question is, where is the diversity in genetic material?"
There were several thousand Homo.S.S. that lived during these ice age years and just before the ice age.. That gave us enough genetic variation to continue on as a species.
"Sometimes the heart cries in cascading sunsets and sometimes it cries under the darkness of the new moon....
but it always cries in the hearts of the beloved..."
Being a mother myself I could never see why you would do that with your child. However I believe that we all have the right to do what makes us happy. Who is anyone to judge someone's actions? In some countries it common for cousins to marry. Throughout history you can see time and time again where even siblings married.
