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Maggotboy

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed.
June 16, 2012, 04:36am
(465) | (36)
A woman with "severe" anorexia who wanted to be allowed to die is to be force fed in her "best interests" by order of a High Court judge.

Mr Justice Peter Jackson declared that the 32-year-old from Wales, who cannot be identified, did not have the capacity to make decisions for herself.

He made public his judgment on Friday after making the ruling last month.

But Glyn Davies, Conservative MP for Montgomeryshire, used Twitter to criticise the judge's ruling.

He tweeted: "Shocking that judge orders anorexic Welsh woman be force fed against her will.

"She should be allowed to die with dignity. Shameful decision".
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote

She does not seek death, but above all she does not want to eat or to be fed”

Mr Justice Peter Jackson Court of Protection

The case was brought by the woman's local authority, which also cannot be identified.

The court heard that the woman - known only as E - had altered her living will.

Initially, it said she wanted to die when the time came and she did not want to be revived.

Later, she said she wanted to live and wanted to make her own decisions about her future.

The judge, sitting in the Court of Protection, said it was a "a very difficult decision" for him to make because it required "a balance to be struck between the weight objectively to be given to life on one hand and to personal independence on the other".

Giving his reasons, the judge said that although she was "gravely unwell, she is not incurable".

He said: "She does not seek death, but above all she does not want to eat or to be fed.


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Is this denial of rights or is the force feeding justified? If not, where's the line?


Vermin

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GanDILF
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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 16, 2012, 04:52am
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The line is where people are ruled not to have the mental capacity to make a reasoned decision. Where they don't, the reasonable state has to act in their best interests.

It's exactly the same issue as the current legal action around Moors Murderer Ian Brady who is trying to have himself declared legally sane so that he can starve himself to death. If he is held to be sane, nobody can legally stop him.


Helloween_1985

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 16, 2012, 08:02am
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"But Glyn Davies, Conservative MP for Montgomeryshire, used Twitter to criticise the judge's ruling."

I wonder how E feels about being used as a "political pawn?" stare


Vermin

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GanDILF
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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 12:38am
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You seem to be under the impression that her condition is hopeless.


Maggotboy

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 12:47am
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"I wonder how E feels about being used as a "political pawn?"

Hungry?

"but if it's so bad we're in court ordering her force-fed I think the situation must be dire."

The thinking is not as dire as if she dies.


Maggotboy

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 01:01am
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Right now definitely, but with the right treatment her condition can improve, she can get better and her quality of life massively increases.

Tough to treat her if we let her starve herself to death.


Helloween_1985

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 03:43am
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"Tough to treat her if we let her starve herself to death."

seeing as she changed her will twice, what'a to say she might change it again?

"but with the right treatment her condition can improve, she can get better and her quality of life massively increases."

you make it sound as if she has a disease


Maggotboy

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 04:36am
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"What is the right treatment? How soon can we expect to see results?"

No idea, I'm not a doctor and I've never met the woman. Clearly the actual doctors' opinions were optimistic enough to convince the judge.


"Seeing as she changed her will twice, what'a to say she might change it again?"

If she's mentally competent she can. Right now she isn't.

"you make it sound as if she has a disease"

Well she hasn't been cursed by gypsies. What she has is a mental disorder. Much like a disease (actually is a disease in the broader sense) in that it requires treatment and no-one could be reasonably expected to just "snap out of it."

Edited by: Maggotboy at June 18, 2012, 04:37am


cephalopod

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 12:31pm
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Force feeding is kind of par the course for cases of anorexia that merit such an extreme intervention. The only thing that seems to set this particular case apart is that it went to the courts for some reason, in which case a ruling for force feeding isn't much different from a ruling that requires a schizophrenic to take anti-psychotics, for example.

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Helloween_1985

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 01:07pm
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"Much like a disease (actually is a disease in the broader sense) in that it requires treatment"

if E doesn't want to eat, then that's her choice. Are we going to start telling everyone what to do "just becuase it's in their best intrest?"


Vermin

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 02:42pm
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Damn those pesky laws and codes of medical ethics.


Maggotboy

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 03:02pm
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"If E doesn't want to eat, then that's her choice."

It would be if she wasn't mentally ill and incapable of making a choice.

Edited by: Maggotboy at June 18, 2012, 03:02pm


Vermin

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GanDILF
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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 03:53pm
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Yes, because forcing people to do what you want them to do is "ethical".


I think you'll find it isn't. I know that, you know that, and we both know each other knows that, so why the posturing?


HitlersMoustache

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 04:17pm
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Why allow her to make the decision to die when, from what we can tell of her mental state, she is not mentally fit to make that decision by herself? Children aren't allowed to decide to have sex because they don't have the mental capacity, just as this woman apparently doesn't currently have the mental capacity to make such a momentous decision about her life.


-SKOLL-

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 05:05pm
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if her survival instinct cant cover her defects i dont see the need to keep her alive.

-----
"When the government fears the people you have Liberty,
when the people fear the government yo have tyranny,
when injustice becomes law, Rebellion becomes Duty!"
~ Thomas Jefferson.


Borac

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 05:31pm
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That's actually a good argument.


cephalopod

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 05:36pm
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This is a rather nebulous claim, "mentally ill" is applied to far too many situations and people.

Frankly, how her anorexia affects her mindset doesn't even fit into the equation if she's at the point where force feeding is required. Starvation can, and does, completely alter your mental state. It's entirely reasonable to assume that she's making choices now that she wouldn't if she were obtaining proper nutrition.

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Vermin

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 05:45pm
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This is a rather nebulous claim, "mentally ill" is applied to far too many situations and people.


That in itself is a nebulous claim. What about this case?


Vermin

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GanDILF
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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 05:49pm
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if her survival instinct cant cover her defects i dont see the need to keep her alive.


Because with treatment, they might. Much like any other illness.


-SKOLL-

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 05:54pm
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"It's entirely reasonable to assume that she's making choices now that she wouldn't if she were obtaining proper nutrition."
nope.jpg
she made the decision when properly nourished to starve herself to her current state.
therefore, malnutrition is not the root cause.

-----
"When the government fears the people you have Liberty,
when the people fear the government yo have tyranny,
when injustice becomes law, Rebellion becomes Duty!"
~ Thomas Jefferson.


cephalopod

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 06:05pm
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Actually, all that can be assumed is that she made the decision to cut back her food intake to some undetermined degree. Past a certain point, it would be difficult to tell what is intentional, unless she made the effort of writing out her intent and signing the document with a witness beforehand.

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Maggotboy

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. June 18, 2012, 06:15pm
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There's this pervasive idea that mental illnesses aren't as real, or that victims have a measure of control over them and should be held responsible.

Eyeless_Soul
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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. July 08, 2012, 04:26pm
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Anorexia is more psychological than physical. In most cases the anorexic person feels that he/she can not control certain aspects in their life so they strive to find something that they can control. The amount of food they consume, and what they eat is one of them.

I don't think that force feeding her is going to do anything. I know, I have lived with Anorexia for years, my sister is what you would call a 'recovering' Anorexic. When she had first started eating more than what she had considered safe, she had started burning herself. In the case of this woman, I believe that if they force-feed her she will just find vice. It is a never ending cycle. She needs psychiatric treatment; this will allow her to exam the true cause of her Anorexia and cure herself of it once and for all.

evilgrin I don't need a reason to hate you the way I do evilgrin


suckmypics1

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. July 08, 2012, 04:45pm
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what I don't get is if we can force an anorexic woman to eat why can't we do the same to morbidly obese individuals... I mean if they lack the capacity to the save themselves we could court order a force diet and get them the weight loss surgery when they get small enough to be able to get it done. It's an easier task because after surgery they won't have anymore issues. Then on another subject, you could court order people with eczema severe kinds to stay in their houses at sunlight in sunny places like Nevada or California or Florida etc... Because with sun exposure, it hurts their health, and we get sores all over our bodies making it easy to catch diseases and spread them too... This court order could apply to so many people. No one would have any type of freedom left.

Edited by: suckmypics1 at July 08, 2012, 07:25pm


suckmypics1

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. July 08, 2012, 05:51pm
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yea I know I need to edit that when I get on the comp sorry for mispelling.


Maggotboy

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. July 08, 2012, 06:19pm
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I think she means editing it so that it's practically drowned with irony rather than lightly drizzled.

Edited by: Maggotboy at July 08, 2012, 06:19pm


suckmypics1

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. July 08, 2012, 06:53pm
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hey I have eczema I was proving the point that it's terrible to make her eat...


HitlersMoustache

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. July 08, 2012, 07:09pm
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.... What has exzema got to do with the conversation? disturbing


suckmypics1

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. July 08, 2012, 07:22pm
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Sorry, it was an example. I think force feeding an anorexic woman is as wrong as forcing someone extremely overweight to diet or court ordering people with eczema to stay in the house... So we don't get or give others possible health hazards. I think it's overstepping their boundaries...


Maggotboy

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. July 08, 2012, 08:56pm
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Except that's not the issue here at all. The order for her to be force fed was to directly prevent her imminent death so the mental disorder can be treated. She is not capable of making a reasoned decision about her life. Your hypothetical obese (or scaly) people may gorge (or scratch) themselves to the point of death if they want to if they have the mental capacity to make that decision.

That said I have no problem with quarantining someone with a lethal infectious disease.


suckmypics1

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Judge orders anorexic woman to be force fed. July 08, 2012, 10:11pm
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Umm binging which can cause extreme morbid obesity in some bingers. They could be facing iminent death and helth problems and not have the capacity to sabotage it. Due to their disorder. So why can't precautions be taken for them as well? I mean if she needed to be force fed...

Yeah that's what I meant Emp


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