Just trying to push someone in a certain direction. You can do that with both ways you describe, or other ways. How you do it is not relevant, but the results of the manipulations is :-)
Being manipulative would be expressing or acting out things for the purpose of affecting other people's actions or emotional/mental state. They could be true or untrue things, but as long as it's consciously intended to affect the other person, it's manipulative on some level.
I've always viewed manipulation as control, in a negative light. For an example, a woman who gets herself pregnant to manipulate a man into staying in a relationship, when he's not happy being there in the first place. If you use an example of "manipulating" a high school drop out to return to school, I don't exactly think that's manipulation, but more along the lines of looking out for their best interests, when a direct method doesn't work. It's kind of hard to explain, but I think it's the reasoning behind the action that determines if your actions are manipulative or not. So, if you're aiming to hurt or destroy, or just for your own personal gain, it's manipulation. But if you're looking out for someones best interests, then you're just aiming to release someones potential (or whatever). You're not trying to control or harm them, so therefore, you're not manipulating them.
In the example the reason for telling your opnion, is hoping it would trigger change. That's what I meant with 'active' of course, not the silent waiting afterwards.
No, I am pointing out logical errors, with no concern whether you agree with me or not.
With a word vague in nature like manipulative which can cover so many different situations, the so called errors you are pointing out, are your opinions only. Opinions you are trying to push onto others with a level of bias in mind.
The fact you only gave two options, and are vehemently shooting down anyone's retort that opposes to your opinion, make it clear you made this thread not to discuss, but in order to have an entire thread collectively agree with you.
The irony, considering your thread's title, is baffling.
I won't go any further, and will agree to disagree with you to keep things simple.
Fact is, the vaguer the word, the more definitions there will be to define it. Manipulative is one of them:
"Adjective
1.
influencing or attempting to influence the behavior or emotions of others for one’s own purposes."
There are many other definitions for the word, but the above two, are typically the best known.
It is also known to mean the definition you gave. Meaning, as prior stated, that opinions aren't necessarily wrong just because they don't fit under the definition you know of the word.
The media are one of the best known forms of manipulative people, who can be seen as sly and selfish, but also as trying to influence behavior for their own gain.
Only point I was making, which you haven't really disproved.
With that said--All the best. I'll just agree to disagree.
I never attempted to "disprove" anything, I mentioned that advertising is an active or "direct" form of manipulation.
Advertising can manipulate directly or indirectly.
You don't have to be direct to condition a person's thought process is stating a fact. It can be done directly, or indirectly. You made the choice to assume I implied otherwise.
If you aren't trying to disprove the above, then why debate it further unless you can prove the above to be wrong?
I'm not saying your opinion is wrong (as mentioned, there are so many ways to look at this), I just disagree with it based on my background in business and marketing.
With that said, I'll agree to disagree with you on that very point.
It does seem that only the guilty people tend to see the dark side of people. I used to be a pretty bad kid (yes, I realize that I am still a child, I'm referring to when I was 13 to 16) and I could only see the bad in people, because I saw myself in them.
to be manipulative is to understand the ways of the mind and all mentality and utilize that to indulge a mind to one side, not yet good or evil, that depending on the purpose and end result of this act.
~The air tastes just like you, it's the smell of June
A sensory shock that jolts my spirit, I slowly swallow you
A spray of little droplets, a fragrance so refined
The spirit of nostalgia is passing me by~
not even close to what i mean, if you understand the mind and see what path that leads it, then you can change its way with subliminal means, being manipulative is knowing the responses of the mind.
Being manipulative is a natural pre requisite of getting what you want from, or out of people. Its a skill, possibly a life skill, or a suvival skill, depending on how you look at it. The use of words, body language, facial expressions, tone of voice, timing can be used to exploit people by coercing them to react in such a manner thats favorable to you. You also need empathy to be able to read people`s moods and emotional states, so better to know when they`re vulnerable, or even in a pleasant mood and more receptive to asking favours. In order to get what you want from people, you have to have a natural knack for judging the situation and knowing the right things to say and more importantly, how to say them, so that you can draw the end result from someone being coerced unknowingly into giving you what you want, which differs depending on your specific need at the time.
Manipulating people is a natural ability to read people and know how to alter their mood, exploit their generosity, change their beliefs as best suits your purpose. Manipulating people also becomes addictive, the more you use the skill, the easier it gets. Its also a professional skill forsome people in certain professions.
Whether theres a moralistic factor involved depends mainly in the manipulator`s motives and personal ethics. Personally I`ve never had the slightest qualm about getting what I want from people with gentle, but knowing use of fake emotional inflection, tone of voice, artificial sincerity, body language and kind, or vulnerable facial expressions and of course...timing and well chosen words. It easier with people you`re familiar with, sometimes harder with people you`re only casually aquainted with.
Edited by: shitkicker
at December 02, 2012, 09:51pm
Panocha Posse 4 life. Panocha Bandito. Love the camboyana puta. CHUPALO PUTA!!!!
how does one accomplish anything in the physical without being manipulative, all human interaction is manipulative...
i don't mean that in a cynical way either.
most people are unaware of their motivations and the almost unconscious ways they communicate. passive or active, most communication, verbal and non verbal are generated from a desire (conscious or not) to illicit and outcome
Through the heart instead of through impurity. 90% of the world is manipulative, the pure are a rare breed.
~The air tastes just like you, it's the smell of June
A sensory shock that jolts my spirit, I slowly swallow you
A spray of little droplets, a fragrance so refined
The spirit of nostalgia is passing me by~
"all human interaction is manipulative"
that is because all human minds are easily influenced to a degree, know how to distract from the main point, git away. add ideas not original to ones head, create a new way. you can control anyone you understand.
"the pure are a rare breed"
that's because they stayed in there light so much that they never noticed there darkness overflowing, to choose one side will only overwhelm us in the end.
This is only a question that can be answered through personal experience honestly. And it's usually a negative experience that comes up with the word manipulative. And what I can say to that is, Mentalist. Look the word up.
