First up, I'm new here so sorry if this doesn't belong here or has been discussed before, it's just something I think about alot.
Just recently I was converted from Christianity to Atheism through debating with a friend. I had never really thought about death up till this point, I'd always just had the normal Heaven and Hell kind of ideas in my head. I had never considered that maybe when you die there is just nothing.
I can lay awake for hours at night attempting to understand what nothingness is, but I just can't seem to fully grasp it..
Like what I automatically assume is just blackness.. Darkness.. But why do I relate blackness, or just an absence of colour to nothingness? Why not white?
Not really sure what my question is here.. Just kinda hoping to discuss people's views on death and and I suppose.. what happens to you when you die?
It's like the time before you were born. Simple as that. We can't imagine nothingness and that's exactly why it is nothingness.
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"Like what I automatically assume is just blackness.. Darkness.. But why do I relate blackness, or just an absence of colour to nothingness? Why not white?"
Consider light. White light is the full color spectrum. Black is the absence of light.
A very good point was made earlier in the discussion, pertaining to how we think of nothingness as 'dark' or 'black'. These concepts are simply the closest thing we can conceive of to nothingness but what's to say there is any real relation there?
You can try to understand what nothingness is by not trying to understand anything at all. Once you detach yourself from all external reality, then I could start to see how you could understand complete nothingness. Maybe.
The problem of there never being nothing arises though. I mean, according to physics, every object is made of atoms, so while on this earth and in our known galaxy, I don't think you could ever fully experience true nothingness.
“I had come to accept the fact that the acquisition of too much knowledge had led me to drug use, but it was through the very same drug use that I had acquired my knowledge" - Marilyn Manson
Once you detach yourself from all external reality, then I could stat to see how you could understand complete nothingness.
But therein lies the flaw. The fact that you are a conscious being invalidates any objective observation. The actual "state of nothingness" occurs beyond the scope of observable phenomena.
stalin whirl!!!
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"A very good point was made earlier in the discussion, pertaining to how we think of nothingness as 'dark' or 'black'. These concepts are simply the closest thing we can conceive of to nothingness but what's to say there is any real relation there?"
The fact that cold and dark are both defined by absence should be a really good clue. Without particles you have no motion, and thus no heat. No photons, no light, it would be dark. These two points are kind of tautological.
'The fact that cold and dark are both defined by absence should be a really good clue. Without particles you have no motion, and thus no heat. No photons, no light, it would be dark. These two points are kind of tautological.'
On the surface it would appear so, but I meant to go beyond human perception. Sure, darkness to us is tantamount to nothingness, but darkness is still 'something' to be perceived. The notion of true nothingness would not even contain a concept such as darkness. So, before there was anything (assuming you don't subscribe to a cyclical universe), be it particles, photons, or beings to imagine such things, is it really still applicable to apply the concept of darkness to nothingness?
- Say you are the only being in the universe, and you are in space - a black hole for it is where anything can be, where you the being actually remains - So nothingness is a test for being the being that you actually are in terms of relative energy alone! How's that?
~ So terminology as beyond time and space is really a test for being your own being solitarily - it's poor trick or treat devilish instincts like to feel and experience these tests seriously, or, are you ready for this? In a positive sense to come to an understanding that you have a better sense of energy inside your own inner nature - Either way it's your right hand observation in a private sense - a gay-like trait!
Our idea of nothingness is in truth the absence of external stimuli. Actual nothingness is the absence of consciousness altogether. As we are conscious beings, it is beyond our comprehension.
"As we are conscious beings, it is beyond our comprehension."
But how can you know what consciousness is on behalf of every living thing. There are many kinds of consciousness, and non - being or non - consciousness is itself a kind of conscious awakening. At least the Buddhists would have it that way.
“I had come to accept the fact that the acquisition of too much knowledge had led me to drug use, but it was through the very same drug use that I had acquired my knowledge" - Marilyn Manson
Someone said that belief is complex and vague. How is this so? Moreover, how can you say that without first believing it is true?
To me, you have to ask yourself, if I am real and I am here, then how do I believe both of these things to be reality and not falsehoods. Is belief needed to be alive, or do we need belief because we are alive?
“I had come to accept the fact that the acquisition of too much knowledge had led me to drug use, but it was through the very same drug use that I had acquired my knowledge" - Marilyn Manson
“But how can you know what consciousness is on behalf of every living thing. There are many kinds of consciousness, and non - being or non - consciousness is itself a kind of conscious awakening. At least the Buddhists would have it that way.”
True, consciousness has many definitions. I was referring to consciousness as ability to process sensory stimuli. Through Buddhist meditation it is possible to attain absence of thoughts. But even in this case, the mind is aware of darkness, silence, absence of stimuli. True nothingness is complete lack of awareness altogether.
- Still the question of where the zero is remains!
The space where anything exists - Zero is non place nor time bearing of itself but the thought or concept = identification of nothing being heald or driven form a being with an ID idiot62!
- Just an interesting thought: Hell and/or Heaven can be discovered in terms of consciousness through individual bearing practices to attempt to feel or conceptionalize nothingness! And much more food for thought - madness can result in the concept practice to attempt to understand nothingness.
But how can you know what consciousness is on behalf of every living thing. There are many kinds of consciousness, and non - being or non - consciousness is itself a kind of conscious awakening. At least the Buddhists would have it that way.
The problem with this argument is the fact that our understanding is through our human nature. A broad definition of 'consciousness' that spans beyond the human interpretation is absurd at best. It is simply inaccessible and speculative, at best. The point is best outlined quite well in the metaphysical paper by Thomas Nagel 'What is it Like to be a Bat?'.
These 'states of consciousness' cannot be objectively experienced. Having been relegated beyond the pale of human inspection, these objections are superfluous.
if I am real and I am here, then how do I believe both of these things to be reality and not falsehoods. Is belief needed to be alive, or do we need belief because we are alive?
The epiphenomenalists would argue that there is no 'mind state' that doesn't arise independent of the physical component, therefore there is no falsehood at all to either your state of actual physical being, or your mental perceiving of the world.
1 - 1 = 0
An empirical statement from i62? How unexpected.
Most elegant. Missed ya around these parts.
What nothingness is:
you're unconscious forever...unknown to the world.
you're nothing but a sack of disintegrating flesh that will eventually become like every other dead skeleton underground, you're in death's uniform now.
you're not even a ghost, because in 100 years from now you vanished without the trace of a grave.
